Reply to Carla

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Ardmorehomeowner's picture
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Last seen: 4 years 48 weeks ago
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I feel compelled to address many divisive and disingenuous statements previously made here. I think it behooves us all to refrain from obnoxioous and unfounded comments. Phrases such as "anointed one" are neither constructive nor welcome. Please let us all mind our manners.
As to more substantive issues, I write as a homeowner on Spring Avenue. Every big storm results in a flood at my house. Living on Spring Avenue I no more anticipated this than one living on River Road expects to live in a houseboat. The problem is not groundwater Carla but run-off. Come wade through my front lawn during the next storm so that you may be better informed.
The vitriolic attack on Steven Lindner was likewise not based on fact or truth. Further, at no time was mention made of Mr. Liberi and his presence, or lack thereof, in our community and at our meetings. I have frequently over the past year witnessed Mr. Lindner's involvement in the Ardmore community and have yet to see Mr. Liberi at the many community service projects I have assisted. I have attended township meetings and heard Mr. Lindner speak and again, have never seen, much less heard from, Mr. Liberi. Mr. Liberi is a charming person but has not invested enough in Ardmore to be a viable candidate representing my views.
It is incumbent upon us to vote based on facts not "vibes".
Carla asks "Will the racial divide worsen or lessen if he becomes commissioner". As a Caucasian I find this offensive and inflammatory.

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dmuth's picture
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First, thanks for being civil. I know it's way too easy for us to get worked up over the important issues.

Second, have you considered following up on the blog posts in question with your comments?

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carla's picture
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Thanks for writing in. Duly noted, your opinion. However, I did not attack Steve Lindner, I stated my opinion that he is not ready to be a commissioner.

But aren't you Steve Lindner's Democratic co-committee person? I think that is very important to note - that would mean that you through the party have a vested interest in him becoming commissioner, true?

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http://www.democratslmn.org/committeepeople.php
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L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers/Man is born free, yet he is everywhere in chains.–Jean Jacques Rosseau. The Social Contract, 1762

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dmuth's picture
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But aren't you Steve Lindner's Democratic co-committee person? I think that is very important to note - that would mean that you through the party have a vested interest in him becoming commissioner, true?

Indeed, if this is the case, it should be disclosed.

I'm fine with people coming on here and stumping for their friends, as long as they make their affiliation clear. It's the fake astroturfing stuff on the other hand that makes me go from zero to nuclear.

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LexoTime5's picture
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Speaking as an anonymous blogger myself, I could use some clarification. Are we expected to reveal any connection we may have that could prejudice our stated opinions? And are we to be trusted to judge that on our own?

Ardmorehomeowner has not made any attempt to conceal identity, and even told us where he/she lives and invited us over to see her flooding. Seems like all fairly confirmable stuff. I do agree it's relevant for him/her to state something as basic as being a party committee person.

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dmuth's picture
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This one's hard to make a "rule" about, because I feel there's lots of gray area.

One of the reasons I brought this up here was because Ardmorehomeowner's very first post was regarding a current candidate for commissioner, and specifically disputing Carla's posts about that candidate. That's much different from say, someone who posts on the site regularly and has a "presence" here.

Also, back in the early days of this site, we had to deal with an individual actively trolling/astroturfing us. I'd like to avoid that sort of thing ever happening again. (Ask me offline for the story sometime.)

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LexoTime5's picture
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Ever though about having a little 'coming out' party for anonymous bloggers?

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carla's picture
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LexoTime5 - The truth of it is anonymity in writing and especially when it comes to politics is practically an American tradition dating back to broadsides in the 18th century during the American Revolution - Ben Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Paine, etc. There is no harm in anonymity. And ArdmoreHomeowner isn't anonymous, she told us her names by choice in addition to her "handle" - but she just neglected to mention the relationship to the candidate - i.e. she's a Democrat committeeperson. Some could have construed what she did as inappropriate, but in truth I don't care. Those who follow blindly just because it's their political party will always dislike those of us who actually think about these things before deciding anything. And face it, we're talking local politics here. I think it's what can these people bring to the table, how they can bring people together, the effort they make to get to know their constituency regardless of race, creed, or color. I don't think Steve Lindner has it. He is not a leader. And if he is elected I firmly believe that in the end, I will be right. But whether or not South Ardmore in particular can break the status quo and try something different, remains to be seen. I wonder, will these people check out the competition or merely vote as they are told? Again? Because I saw that literally in action four years ago - I watched and heard as people were led to the doors of St. Mary's - I swear I heard one woman tell someone "just vote how we told you". I was horrified.

Now there is one thing with regard to anonymity that has been attempted here that I do not care for and it's that Vinny Vindictive person. They deliberately set out to malign a nice woman and her family and that is not right. There is a big difference in anonymously mocking a politician or candidate and what they did. Of course, the irony here is Jane Dellheim who spouts big crocodile tears over being blogged about even benignly as a woman and a mother has not denounced the actions of Vinny Vindictive. That speaks volumes. But then again, I bet she is looking the other way as her volunteers steal Regina's lawn signs too - and that is the most petty thing of all.

Lawyers always say the truth is your best defense and journalists say write what you know. That is what I try to do. People may or may not agree with it, but hey, that's ok too.
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L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers/Man is born free, yet he is everywhere in chains.–Jean Jacques Rosseau. The Social Contract, 1762

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dmuth's picture
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Just for being anonymous? No. As Carla mentioned, anonymous criticism is something that is a bit of a tradition in our society.

Now, if someone is using anonymity for the purpose of harassment or defamation, that is much different. As is creating a sockpuppet. I have little tolerance for any of those activities, and will not hesitate to use the banhammer as necessary.

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carla's picture
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Jeri,

The other thing is this, I hit "submit" too soon. My ward, which is close to Scott Zelov's in spots, feels underserviced. As a point of fact, many people in "border" neighborhoods go to "bordering" commissioners.

Now, you live on Spring? How do you feel about those boarded up properties? What do you think can be done to help the property owners and improve the properties to benefit the neighborhood?

And as for your comment:

Carla asks "Will the racial divide worsen or lessen if he becomes commissioner". As a Caucasian I find this offensive and inflammatory.

OK, can we be real here? I have African American friends who (a) refer to themselves as black and me as white (b) and these friends tell me that it is perfectly OK to ask those questions and they further tell me if one CAN'T ask those questions then an area DOES have big problems. Racial issues exist, even in Lower Merion, and if we are to progress as a community, as well as a country, we have to be able to speak openly about race. That is one reason why I voted for Obama. One was meeting Michelle Obama face to face in a small venue, the other was my hope that with someone like him in the Oval Office, I would be able to ask questions like the one you find "offensive and inflammatory".

Again, thanks for writing in.

_____________________________________________________________
L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers/Man is born free, yet he is everywhere in chains.–Jean Jacques Rosseau. The Social Contract, 1762

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xf14ae's picture
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Yanno, if you live on River Road and are surprised that the river overflows it banks and floods your house, then you, my friend, are ready to buy the Brooklyn Bridge too. And, if you live on Spring Ave in Ardmore (as well as in places like, say, Lakeside Drive, Mill Creek Road, and other such areas), which has been subject to flooding for decades and are surprised about it, you might consider entering an investment partnership with those like-minded folk on River Road. Seriously. This is not a new problem and it's not one that can be easily fixed. I mean, the old PECO lot? My mother worked there and joked that on rainy days they didn't walk to the building, they boated there. That was in the 1970s.

Certainly changing the nature of development on *already impervious* ground isn't going to do much. In fact, if the area *is* redeveloped then the neighborhood has a prime opportunity to get some new stormwater drainage infrastructure and other water runoff management such as green sebum roofs, retention ponds and such made mandatory as part of that redevelopment. Plus, it will bring in more jobs and tax dollars if done correctly. But, no, we can't redevelop that big, flat Greenwood lot that is completely surrounded by non-residential buildings. We can't redevelop the already commercial Ardmore West shopping center. Why? I suspect Carla's right.

So please, while I am certainly sure you are upset about the flooding, understand that it comes with living at the bottom of a hill, near a creek, where water naturally flows and is also because of stormwater management that needs updating and that you've got the opportunity to do just that if you can get the land redeveloped properly.

As always, these are my thoughts, and not representative of any organization I am a member of. They're mine alone, like 'em or not.
"I hope it will be said we taught them to stand tall & proud, even in the face of history & the future was made new & whole for us all, one child at a time." - Brian Andreas

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xf14ae's picture
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Which reminds me - why didn't the Township require better stormwater management when the Talones' building was turned into a car dealership? What a fantastic opportunity to require, say, that the asphalt be porous (like at Riverbend), the drainage improved under the lot and that there be a sebum roof installed to absorb rainwater? But no, the neighborhood lobbied intead to keep that one twin standing, surrounded by cars, looking rather sad and odd. I understand the neighborhood doesn't want commercial encroachment, just like many other neighborhoods, but if stormwater runoff and drainage are such big issues why didn't anyone lobby for improvements as redevelopment occurs?

Oh yeah, and Carla understands about stormwater. Her entire neighborhood turns into a lake thanks to AMTRAK every time it rains. She publishes pictures and has been lobbying AMTRAK and SEPTA and the Township for improvements so this doesn't keep happening. And she doesn't live on top of a "reclaimed" pond and creek like the houses by the Skating Rink do.

Hmmm...

As always, these are my thoughts, and not representative of any organization I am a member of in any capacity. They're mine alone, like 'em or not.
"I hope it will be said we taught them to stand tall & proud, even in the face of history & the future was made new & whole for us all, one child at a time." - Brian Andreas

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el109's picture
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Couple of thoughts regarding your stormwater concerns.

1. The Township stormwater ordinance is in fact quite good. The Infinity dealership was required to install significant stormwater controls which will make a difference to those living downstream.

2. Green roofs (or sebum) cannot yet be required because the local building code is controlled by the State and the Township can't change it.

3. Porous pavement is good in certain circumstances but is a major maintenance headache (imagine vacuuming your driveway 4 times per year). There are many good alternatives some of which were used on this project.

I'd be happy to discuss any other environmental issues with you at your convenience. Please join us at the Environmental Advisory Council meetings.

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xf14ae's picture
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Thank you e1109 - I am glad to hear this. So, it seems that if residents have stormwater runoff issues it would actually behoove them to encourage redevelopment 'upstream' of them to allow for older properties that do not have adequate or outdated runoff containment/diversion to improve on that, eh?

"I hope it will be said we taught them to stand tall & proud, even in the face of history & the future was made new & whole for us all, one child at a time." - Brian Andreas

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el109's picture
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In Pennsylvania, unfortunately the only way to get stormwater control systems installed on previously developed properties (without stormwater controls) is to redevelop. The redevelopment kicks in the current stormwater controls requirements. Many other communities and states allow what are generally referred to as "stormwater authorities" similar in function to our sanitary sewer authority of water authority. The stormwater authorities charge fees to maintain storm systems, building new ones where needed, educate property owners about proper stormwater management, improve water quality, etc. The fee is typically based on the amount of impervious area on your property, so a typical homeowner would pay maybe $3 per month for the stormwater authority. However, the shopping center down the street would pay 100s or 1000s times that $3 because they have so much impervious area. The incentive is to install stormwater control systems on existing development to reduce the amount of the fee. This encourages stormwater controls without the redevelopment.

So I would say we should encourage the institution of a stormwater authority. The Township has considered it but there are many legal issues which some believe preclude the creation of an authority. I think we have the authority and responsibility to create the stormwater authority to address some of our stormwater problems.

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LexoTime5's picture
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A very effective method for reducing the effect of storm water from development is to encourage the use of rain barrels under downspouts.

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el109's picture
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You are correct SIR! (in your very best Ed McMahon voice).

And funny you should mention that. The Environmental Advisory Council will be holding a rain barrel program in March. The announcement should be out soon. It will cost $69 and will include an education program and the barrel.

We'll also hold our second home composting program. The first program on October 24th was a smashing success.

Thanks.

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xf14ae's picture
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Really? OOOH! I want rain barrels! I have been thinking about them especially since we started gardening.

Cool.

"I hope it will be said we taught them to stand tall & proud, even in the face of history & the future was made new & whole for us all, one child at a time." - Brian Andreas

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